Kopia przestała być wyjątkiemWywiad z Paulem Kellerem, członkiem organizacji Kennisland.

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Paul Keller z organizacji Kennisland opowiada o Creative Commons, Micku Jaggerze i zmieniającej się roli archiwum.

Nagranie wywiadu z 18. maja 2010 r. jest dostępne tu.

Mieliśmy ostatnio okazję porozmawiać z Paulem Kellerem, założycielem Creative Commons Nederlands, który opowiedział nam o uwalnianiu zasobów twórczych społeczeństwa, począwszy od tego, jak się obchodzi przestarzałe przepisy o prawach autorskich, a kończąc na tym, w jaki sposób zaskakująco silne społeczności peer-to-peer dokonują innowacji na obrzeżach Internetu.

Keller jest członkiem Kennisland, holenderskiego think-tanku zajmującego się pytaniami o przyszłość, stawiającego raczej na gospodarkę opartą na przepływie twórczej wiedzy, aniżeli na obieg dóbr namacalnych. Zasadniczym celem organizacji jest zachowanie dóbr kultury i umożliwienie jak największego dostępu do tych zasobów. Do partnerów Kennisland należą, m.in. Creative Commons, Images for the Future, Communia i Wikimedia.

Kennisland pracuje nad kwestiami praw autorskich we współpracy z instytucjami zajmującymi się ochroną dziedzictwa kulturowego. Jakie są, twoim zdaniem, wady obecnego systemu praw autorskich?
Celem Kennisland jest umożliwienie jak najszerszego dostępu do zdigitalizowanych dóbr kultury, udostępnienie ich na licencjach otwartych lub zupełnie bez ograniczeń. Jeśli chcemy coś udostępnić na licencji, musimy wiedzieć kto jest autorem danego dzieła, a następnie musimy do tej osoby dotrzeć i wynegocjować zasady. Na tym się najczęściej kończy. W przypadku dużych i zróżnicowanych kolekcji, znalezienie wszystkich właścicieli praw autorskich może okazać się bardzo trudnym zadaniem. Szukamy więc praktycznych rozwiązań, które można zastosować w przypadku istniejących projektów, ale chcemy również wpłynąć na proces tworzenia praw i praktyk na poziomie państwa, by móc ominąć te przeszkody w przyszłości. Jak uzyskać zgodę wszystkich, którzy mają udział w tych zasobach, na ich udostępnienie? Wszelkie rozmowy na temat innowacji odbywają się nieoficjalnie, w nieregulowanej przestrzeni, ignorującej prawa autorskie i interesy autorów ― nie ma innej możliwości w instytucjach publicznych, gdzie w radach zasiada szanowne grono emerytów. Te sprawy trzeba negocjować w taki sposób, by zbytnio nie obciążać archiwów a równocześnie szanować prawa autorów i producentów.
Dla przykładu ― prawa autorskie wciąż odzwierciedlają granice państw. Organizacja może posiadać prawa do udostępniania czegoś w Internecie, ale tylko we Francji ― w Belgii już nie. Z punktu widzenia internauty, tego typu sytuacje są czystym absurdem, ale jeśli nie mamy prawa czegoś udostępnić, najprawdopodobniej tego nie zrobimy ― w przeciwnym razie grozi nam odpowiedzialność prawna.

Jak zatem Creative Commons wykorzystuje niuanse prawne, by odpowiedzieć na zmiany spowodowane przez technologie cyfrowe w produkcji i obiegu kultury?
Prawo autorskie oddziela sferę prywatną od publicznej. Prywatne jest to, co pokazuję we własnym domu ― zgodnie z prawem, sfera prywatna to osoby, z którymi łączą mnie osobiste relacje i z którym tworzę zwartą społeczność. Pokaz publiczny wymaga zgody właściciela praw autorskich, a prywatny pokaz już nie. Oczywiście, sfera publiczna się niesamowicie powiększyła dzięki Internetowi. Setki tysięcy osób obejrzało już moje zdjęcia na Flickrze, choć to w zasadzie ta sama kolekcja, którą trzymałem na półce w pudełku po butach i którą swego czasu obejrzało może z pięć osób. Nie ma wątpliwości, że to co kiedyś było prywatne, teraz stało się globalne, wskutek czego tradycyjny podział na prywatne i publiczne już nie zdaje egzaminu w przypadku praw autorskich.
Podział na sferę prywatną i publiczną można by zastąpić o wiele bardziej realnym podziałem na zastosowania komercyjne i niekomercyjne. To w pewnym sensie rozwiązanie proponowane przez Creative Commons. Sfera niekomercyjna wymaga o wiele mniej regulacji i obostrzeń prawnych, a właściciele praw autorskich więcej by zyskali skupiając się na generowaniu przychodu z użytku komercyjnego swoich dzieł. W dzisiejszych czasach, wezwaniem jest nierobienie kopii. Wyjątkowość stała się wyjątkiem, a kopia stała się normą. Musimy się jakoś do tego odnieść ― w przeciwnym razie, zasady rządzące kopiowaniem przestaną działać.

Byłeś jednym z założycieli Creative Commons Nederlands siedem lat temu. Mógłbyś opowiedzieć o tym, jak licencje CC wpłynęły na domenę publiczną? Jakie odnieśliście sukcesy?
Moim zdaniem, wartość Creative Commons nie leży w licencjach na pojedyncze dzieła, np. jakiś blog, z którym i tak niczego ciekawego nie da się zrobić. Licencje te mają o wiele większe znaczenie w przypadku integracji wielkich platform typu Flickr z Creative Commons. Flickr to niesamowite źródło zdjęć objętych wolnymi licencjami, bardzo przydatnych w celach edukacyjnych ― ze zdjęć na licencja CC korzysta bardzo dużo osób. Flickr powoli staje się zagrożeniem dla profesjonalnych fotografów, ze względu na dużą liczbę wolnodostępnych zdjęć sztokowych.
Kolejny przykład to podjęta niedawno decyzja rządu Holandii, by informacje na rządowych stronach internetowych udostępniać na licencji CC0, co oznacza że rząd nie zachowuje żadnych praw autorskich. W tym przypadku Creative Commons zostało użyte jako narzędzie pozwalające wdrożyć zasady usystematyzowanego dostępu do informacji w środowisku sieciowym. Zależy nam więc na tym, by pokazać, że nie chodzi o to, czy udostępnimy tylko trzy filmy, czy aż siedemnaście, a raczej o to, że dzielenie się informacją przynosi korzyść całej organizacji. Chodzi o to, by organizacje te zaczęły wdrażać te narzędzia w swoich platformach i procedurach.

Dzieje się tak coraz częściej. Spośród najbardziej znaczących projektów, mogę wymienić ten, który zrealizowaliśmy we współpracy z Buma/Stemra, holenderską organizacją zajmującą się zbiorowym zarządzaniem praw autorskich do dzieł muzycznych. Celem projektu było stwierdzenie, czy możliwe jest połączenie zarządzania prawami zbiorowymi z zarządzaniem prawami indywidualnymi. Początkowo wydawało im się, że działamy przeciwko nim ― przecież wy chcecie wszystko udostępnić za darmo, a nasza praca polega na tym, żeby egzekwować pieniądze od ludzi korzystających z naszej muzyki. W czym wy możecie nam pomóc? A jednak udało nam się dojść do porozumienia ― nasze podejście może przynieść im korzyść. Okazuje się, że wolny dostęp do utworów może napędzać ich zyski z praw autorskich.

Creative Commons umożliwił dużym serwisom, takim jak Flickr, YouTube, czy władzom Holandii udostępnienie ogromnych ilości treści w formie cyfrowej. Jakie zmiany może to wywołać w funkcjonowaniu archiwów publicznych?
Przewidujemy, że archiwa przestaną być miejscem, w którym się magazynuje rzeczy, z których nikt nie korzysta, a staną się zasobami, z których ludzie faktycznie będą chcieli czerpać. Prawdziwej innowacyjności nie należy szukać w centralnych węzłach archiwum, a raczej na obrzeżach sieci, w systemach dystrybucji i metadanych ― czyli w tych obszarach archiwum, które odpowiadają za dostępność treści. Sieci peer-to-peer w sposób naturalny decydują o tym, co jest warte zachowania, a co nie. Jeśli jakaś treść jest na tyle wartościowa, by choć jedna osoba chciała ją przechować, to cała społeczność będzie miała do tej treści dostęp. Nie ma przecież zasady mówiącej, że archiwizuje się tylko wspaniałą przeszłość. Przykładowo, undergroundowe społeczności dzielące się konkretnymi gatunkami filmów poprzez BitTorrent okazują się być zaskakująco odpowiedzialne jeśli chodzi o archiwizację, choć ich działania łamią prawa autorskie. Społeczności te mają charakter zdecentralizowany, opierają się na pracy członków i skutecznie odpowiadają na ich potrzeby. Spodziewalibyśmy się raczej, że tego typu sieci słabo będą spełniać zadanie archiwów, ale okazuje się, że mogą działać skuteczniej od scentralizowanych systemów, które w końcu muszą przestrzegać pewnych zasad.
Pod tym względem, prawa autorskie są jak lustro weneckie ― z jednej strony mamy zinstytucjonalizowany świat archiwów, a z drugiej ― nieformalne działania, z których wynikają bardzo ciekawe rzeczy, ale które pozostają poza zasięgiem wzroku graczy instytucjonalnych, którym obraz przesłania lustro. Z punktu widzenia społeczności nieformalnych, instytucje wciąż bazują na strukturze osadzonej w czasach, gdy głównymi cechami archiwów były grube mury, kontrolowana temperatura i przestrzenie na tyle duże, by wszystko razem pomieścić. Obecny model praw autorskich nie umożliwia im przeprowadzenia gruntownych zmian w sposobie udostępniania treści, wskutek czego sporo materiału zbiera kurz zamiast służyć społeczeństwu.

Niektórzy zarzucają Creative Commons to, że licencje te nie odnoszą się do tego, w jaki sposób artyści mają zarabiać, gdy ich treści zostaną udostępnione za darmo, oraz że licencje te pozwalają firmom wykorzystywać treści stworzone przez nieopłaconych twórców. Jak odpowiadasz na tego typu zarzuty?
Zarzuty, o których wspomniałeś, bazują na wyobrażeniu, że darmowy dostęp musi być zły, bo jak mają zarobić twórcy, których praca jest rozdawana za darmo? Rzeczywiście, to istotne pytanie, ale odpowiedzi nie należy koniecznie oczekiwać od organizacji Creative Commons. My nie twierdzimy, że licencje Creative Commons są odpowiednim narzędziem dla osób, których głównym celem jest utrzymywanie się z własnej twórczość. Organizacja Creative Commons zawsze mówiła wyraźnie, że nasze licencje nie są obowiązkowe. Są to narzędzia, które mogą się przydać tym, którzy chcą się czymś podzielić.
Z zarabianiem na twórczości wiąże się obecnie o wiele bardziej zasadniczy problem. Mick Jagger, w wywiadzie dla BBC, wyraził niedawno sceptycyzm na temat obecnych debat nad tym, jak muzycy mają zarabiać na sprzedaży nagrań. Zauważył, że poza latami 1970–1997, większość współczesnych muzyków nie utrzymywała się ze sprzedaży nagrań muzycznych. Okres ten należy raczej rozpatrywać w kategorii wyjątku, podczas gdy obecnie traktuje się go jako regułę. Jak zatem należałoby ustalić wartość dóbr kultury w społeczeństwie, w którym jest nadwyżka zasobów ― i jakimi mechanizmami ekonomicznymi należałoby rekompensować pracę tych, którzy te dobra tworzą? Jak ― i czy w ogóle ― należałoby tę kwestię regulować? Po co w ogóle tworzyć dobra, skoro wszyscy mają dostęp do wszystkiego? Ani Creative Commons, ani prawa autorskie nie dadzą nam ostatecznej odpowiedzi na to pytanie. Musimy to jeszcze raz przemyśleć, ale nie punktu widzenia praw, lecz perspektywy ekonomicznej. Jak dotąd nie znaleźliśmy modelu gospodarczego, który rozwiąże tę debatę.

Zarabianie na sprzedaży dóbr kultury ― ja ci daję dobro, a ty mi dajesz pieniądze i artysta wychodzi na plus ― jest zupełnym wyjątkiem. Należałoby raczej zastanowić się, dlaczego bazowanie na systemie praw autorskich nie przynosi oczekiwanych skutków. Prawa autorskie zakładają prostą transakcję ― ja mam dobra kultury, ty masz pieniądze i wymieniamy się zgodnie z zasadami, w przeciwnym razie łamię prawo autorskie. Zważywszy na to, że każdy może wykonać kopię czegokolwiek, nie jest to najmądrzejszy sposób organizowania przepływu wiedzy czy dóbr kultury. Creative Commons zostało dobudowane do istniejącego systemu praw autorskich po to, by umożliwić jakieś wyjście z tej sytuacji.

tłumaczył Arthur Barys

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