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Rozmowa z Julią Rowntree

O związkach między biznesem i sztuką oraz pozyskiwaniu sponsorów dla kultury mówi fundraiser, Julia Rowntree.

Jak producentka filmów animowanych trafiła do zespołu festiwalu teatralnego?

LIFT, czyli London International Festival of Theatre, organizowały moje koleżanki – Rose de Wend Fenton i Lucy Neal. Znałyśmy się od lat. Doradzałam im trochę przy okazji festiwalu, z kolei gdy ja szłam na urlop, one zastępowały mnie w mojej pracy. I jak się potem okazało, to właśnie w trakcie tych zastępstw nauczyły się fakturowania!
Oprócz filmów animowanych i pełnometrażowych, produkowałam głównie reklamy telewizyjne. Po dziesięciu latach miałam tego dość i w 1986 roku postanowiłam zająć się czymś innym. A ponieważ LIFT stanął wtedy w martwym punkcie, z moim doświadczeniem producenckim w pośredniczeniu między światem sztuki a środowiskiem komercyjnym, wymyśliłam, że spróbuję opracować strategię pozyskiwania sponsorów dla festiwalu. Umówiłyśmy się z Rose i Lucy wstępnie na trzy miesiące, zostałam dwadzieścia lat. Jeśli poważnie podchodzi się do pracy fundraisera, jest to zadanie bardzo angażujące i czasochłonne. I choć na samym początku musiałam żyć z własnych oszczędności, potem udawało się stopniowo zwiększać budżet na moje stanowisko.

Czy to właśnie doświadczenie w branży reklamowej zadecydowało o skuteczności pozyskiwania sponsorów?

To była bardziej ogólna tendencja w ówczesnej kulturze i ekonomii. Miałam wprawdzie pewną biegłość w angażowaniu tych dwóch światów – sztuki i biznesu – do wspólnego dialogu, ale marketingowe podejście do fundraisingu nie było tylko moją zasługą. Taka logika obowiązywała w całej kulturze w Wielkiej Brytanii.

W Polsce pozyskiwanie sponsorów dla kultury sprowadza się do proszenia firm o pieniądze. Pani podejście jest zupełnie inne. Sponsora traktuje pani jak klienta, którego trzeba zdobyć. Przypomina to transakcję.

Dokładnie o takim podejściu mowa. Dla nas to też było na początku nietypowe działanie. Relacja między światami sztuki i biznesu ewoluowała. Wzajemne zaufanie i wspólny język komunikacji pojawiały się stopniowo.

Ale rewolucji nie dokonuje się w pojedynkę. Aby zmienić sposób myślenia o sponsoringu potrzebne były zmiany strukturalne na poziomie państwowym. W lobbowaniu rządu w kwestii promowania wśród firm sponsoringu kultury bardzo pomocne okazało się wsparcie organizacji Association for Business Sponsorship of the Arts (ABSA), z którą LIFT był w komitywie.

Wspólnie udało nam się doprowadzić do ustalenia norm i zasad sponsoringu. Na przykład w Wielkiej Brytanii niedopuszczalne jest, aby w okolicy sceny teatralnej bądź koncertowej znajdowało się logo sponsora. Potrzebne są ogólne zasady współpracy, ale w sytuacji konkretnego spotkania ze sponsorem trzeba liczyć już tylko na siebie i indywidualne relacje.

Jakie korzyści z takiej transakcji mogą płynąć dla biznesu?

Bardzo wiele. Nie zapominajmy, że każda firma lub instytucja, nieważne – prywatna czy publiczna – oprócz realizowania celu, w jakim została powołana i roli jaką ma spełniać, jest po prostu społecznością ludzi próbujących coś wspólnie zrobić. Z tą świadomością łatwiej zrozumieć, że sztuka może mieć wpływ na funkcjonowanie firmy jako małej społeczności. Jest tym, co przemawia do jednostek. Odbiorcą spektaklu teatralnego, obrazu czy utworu muzycznego, jest zawsze człowiek, a nie reprezentant firmy. Wspólne doświadczanie sztuki wpływa na wzajemne zrozumienie i zaufanie. Kiedy zespół stanowią ludzie darzący się zaufaniem, o wiele łatwiej realizować założenia firmy.

Wygląda na to, że pieniądze są na drugim planie i chodzi raczej o pewną filozofię. Odpowiedzialność jest tu po stronie ludzi sztuki.

Faktycznie, zależy mi, aby fundraising postrzegać nie tylko w kategoriach zdobywania pieniędzy, ale również jako element wypełniania odwiecznej roli społecznej sztuki, umożliwiającej ludziom u władzy wywoływanie zmian kulturowych i oświecania obywateli (w tym również siebie samych).

Zanim pojawiło się coś takiego jak „publiczne pieniądze”, sztuka istniała dzięki mecenasom. Zawsze korzystała ze wsparcia wpływowych ludzi. I sponsoring jest właśnie formą współczesnego mecenatu. Fundraiser jest w tym układzie łącznikiem między światem artystów a światem biznesmenów i wspiera tworzenie społecznej dynamiki, z której rodzi się postęp. Z antropologicznego punktu widzenia fundraiser pracuje dla rozwoju ludzkości.
Jest też inny aspekt.

Na moją rolę w LIFT spojrzałam też w kontekście relacji pana i niewolnika, o których pisał Hegel. Według niemieckiego filozofa w tym układzie tylko niewolnik może zmienić wzajemne relacje na partnerstwo. Gdyby komunikat „zmień swoje zachowanie” wyszedł od pana, układ pozostałby bez zmian, ponieważ to pan w dalszym ciągu dyktowałby warunki. Zmianę musi zainicjować służący. Kiedy wyobraziłam sobie, że panem jest wpływowa osoba z pieniędzmi, a niewolnikiem ten, który poszukuje funduszy, zrozumiałam, skąd bierze się ten dyskomfort proszenia o pieniądze. Trzeba zrozumieć, że to od nas zależy układ, w jakim się znajdziemy. I choć przekonanie, że nie ma się na nic wpływu jest bardzo ludzkie, tak naprawdę mamy moc sprawczą.

I już? Zadziała?

Nie oszukujmy się: odpowiedź potencjalnego sponsora najczęściej brzmi „nie”. Trzeba być silnym i odpornym na odmowę. Ale też przygotowanym na sukces, od czasu do czasu. Bo trafiają się wyjątki. Kiedyś zdarzyło mi się, że zadzwoniłam do potencjalnego sponsora jednego z naszych projektów i zgodnie z wypracowaną procedurą przedstawiłam zarys koncepcji. Chodziło o nawiązanie pierwszego kontaktu, po którym – jeśli sponsor był wstępnie zainteresowany – zazwyczaj następowało spotkanie i dopiero po nim decyzja „tak” lub „nie”. Na tę decyzję trzeba było czekać średnio miesiąc. A tu nagle, tamten człowiek po drugiej stronie słuchawki powiedział „tak” w trakcie pierwszej rozmowy telefonicznej! Zaskoczył mnie. Tak bardzo nawykłam do odmowy lub przedłużających się negocjacji, że nie przygotowałam jeszcze szczegółów oferty i musiałam powiedzieć, że oddzwonię później. To była lekcja: bądź gotowy na powodzenie.

Od czego zależy to „tak” lub „nie”?

Za decyzją o sponsorowaniu wydarzenia zawsze stoi jakiś osobisty powód osoby decyzyjnej. W przypadkach, z którymi się spotkałam, okazywało się na przykład, że osoby te albo ich partner lub dziecko, grały na jakimś instrumencie, były w przeszłości w kółku teatralnym, interesowały się daną dziedziną sztuki. W fundraisingu chodzi z jednej strony o to, by dotrzeć do odpowiedniej osoby, ale też znaleźć wspólny mianownik. Wtedy zmienia się ten układ pan-niewolnik. Zamiast petenta stojącego na przeciw potencjalnego sponsora, stajemy się partnerami i wspólnie zmierzamy w kierunku porywającej realizacji. To moment, w którym ta druga osoba sięga do kieszeni i nawet nie zauważa, że właśnie przekazała pieniądze, ponieważ tak bardzo jest zaaferowana przedstawioną jej wizją. To jest możliwe, gdy pomysły biorą się ze sfery piękna, a pomysłodawca w odpowiednim momencie wchodzi w relacje z odpowiednimi ludźmi. Najpierw jednak potrzeba dużo nemawashi.

Co to takiego?

Nemawashi w języku japońskim oznacza przygotowywanie rośliny do przesadzenia przez okopywanie korzeni. Metaforyczne znaczenie tego słowa to nieoficjalny proces tworzenia podstaw, podwalin projektu lub zmiany poprzez rozmowę z ludźmi, gromadzenie informacji zwrotnych, budowanie wsparcia. Uważany jest za bardzo istotny element każdej zmiany, etap przed podjęciem oficjalnych kroków. Pomyślne nemawashi sprawia, że zmiany następują za aprobatą wszystkich zainteresowanych stron.

To istna sztuka sponsoringu.

Bardzo ważna jest spójność koncepcji.

Rozmawiały Agnieszka Berlińska i Agnieszka Słodownik

 

Wywiad opublikowano w 34. numerze  pisma Dwutygodnik.com.

odsłuchaj zawartość strony wersja do druku

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