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Rozmowa z Katarzyną Wielgą i Martą Wójcicką

Najistotniejsze, żeby kongres nie był tylko kilkudniowym wydarzeniem, ale zalążkiem współpracy między polskimi i europejskimi ngosami – mówią Katarzyna Wielga i Marta Wójcicka, koordynatorki programu kulturalnego Polskiej Prezydencji

Dlaczego organizacje pozarządowe powinny stawić się na Europejskim Kongresie Kultury we Wrocławiu?

Marta Wójcicka: Nadrzędnym celem kongresu jest nie tyle diagnozowanie kultury, co pisanie scenariuszy na przyszłość. Dlatego nie wyobrażamy sobie nieobecności działaczy i animatorów kultury, bo to ich praca jest podstawą zmian. Kluczowe hasło kongresu to „Art for social change” czyli sztuka jako narzędzie zmiany społecznej. Takie podejście do sztuki realizują przede wszystkim organizacje pozarządowe, dlatego nie tylko EKK, ale w ogóle cały program kulturalny polskiej Prezydencji w UE jest realizowany w dużej mierze w oparciu o ngosy i projekty zaproponowane przez trzeci sektor.

Katarzyna Wielga: Udział w EKK powinien być szczególnie ważny dla polskich organizacji, bo według badań polski trzeci sektor jest najmniej „zsieciowanym” sektorem w Europie. Współpraca pomiędzy samymi polskimi organizacjami jest nikła, nie wspominając o kontaktach międzynarodowych. Kongres w naszym zamierzeniu ma być katalizatorem współpracy; ma uświadomić organizacjom potrzebę i korzyści płynące ze wspólnego działania; ma zachęcać do tworzenia sieci, nawet nieformalnych, które pozwolą polskim ngosom zaistnieć poza lokalnym kontekstem i zyskać wpływ na to, co się dzieje w Europie. Bo w tej chwili, polskie organizacje nie biorą żadnego udziału w kształtowaniu roli kultury w polityce europejskiej.

Co oznacza dla was hasło „Art for Social Change”? Dlaczego właśnie ono ma być kluczem do kongresowych debat?

KW: To hasło bardzo pojemne. Niektórzy interpretują je w kontekście inżynierii społecznej. W naszym ujęciu, nie chodzi nawet o „sztukę jako narzędzie zmiany społecznej”, ale dokładnie o „sztukę dla zmiany społecznej”. Chcemy zapytać organizacje, w jaki sposób kultura/sztuka może wpływać na społeczeństwo; jak z niego czerpie i co mu oddaje; w jakich obszarach może działać. Sztuka nie jest enklawą – w jej naturze leży pobudzanie otwartego myślenia, zmienianie perspektyw – i dlatego może, nie stając się automatycznie instytucją usługową, wpływać na biznes, politykę i wszelkie inne dziedziny życia. To jest najistotniejsze.

MW: Kultura włącza do społeczeństwa różne grupy społeczne, często wykluczane. Europa skupia się teraz na takich grupach – na seniorach, na dzieciach – a trzeci sektor to przecież ruchy obywatelskie. Chcemy zaakcentować, że współtworzy on i w jeszcze większym stopniu może współtworzyć kulturę.

Zakładacie, jak rozumiem, że uczestnicy kongresu nie będą tylko biernymi słuchaczami debat…

MW: Rzeczywiście, budując program myślałyśmy o tym, żeby włączyć do niego organizacje pozarządowe i animatorów kultury nie tylko jako biernych słuchaczy; chcemy dać im głos i przestrzeń do wypowiedzi, a także zachęcić do współtworzenia niektórych wydarzeń.

KW: Proponowane przez nas aktywności otwierają dla organizacji szanse na nawiązanie międzynarodowej współpracy. Wierzymy, że dla części organizacji może się to rozwinąć w długofalowe relacje. Najistotniejsze jest dla nas to, żeby kongres nie był tylko kilkudniowym wydarzeniem, ale raczej zalążkiem takich relacji. Wszystkie te aktywności będą wymagały nawiązywania osobistych kontaktów.

MW: Postaramy się też otworzyć ścieżkę, w ramach której organizacje będą mogły zgłosić się do nas z ciekawymi projektami, które będziemy mogli dofinansować i które będą prezentowane podczas kongresu (a później, mamy nadzieję, kontynuowane). Ogłoszenie w tej sprawie pojawi się na stronie EKK na początku marca. Warunkiem zgłoszenia projektu będzie nawiązanie współpracy z zagranicznym partnerem. Chcemy również w ten sposób nakłonić polskie ngosy do zmiany perspektywy.

Jako działaczka trzeciego sektora wiem, że jeżeli chcemy przetrwać, to musimy nauczyć się znajdować sobie partnerów w myśleniu i w działaniu. Musimy też jako społeczeństwo osiągnąć dojrzałość i przestać zajmować się tylko swoimi problemami, powinniśmy zacząć myśleć o sobie w kontekście większej całości – już czas stać się członkiem Unii Europejskiej nie tylko na papierze, ale też w praktyce. W Polsce pokutuje przekonanie, że tego rodzaju współpraca jest nieosiągalna; że nasze problemy są swoiste i hermetyczne – a to nieprawda, ngosy w innych krajach mają te same problemy i niektóre z sukcesem je pokonały. Warto z tego skorzystać.

Na EKK zaprosiłyście inicjatywę „A Soul for Europe”, która powstała w Berlinie jako grupa aktywistów, a teraz jest międzynarodowym graczem, ma swoją grupę roboczą w Parlamencie Europejskim. Oni stanowią chyba najlepszy przykład dobrych skutków współpracy ponad branżami, sektorami kultury i krajami…

KW: Tak, ASFE jest ważnym graczem, chociaż sami na pewno  nie użyliby wobec siebie takiego określenia. To nieformalna inicjatywa, która ma już członków w 21 krajach, i która postawiła sobie za cel uświadomienie politykom na poziomie europejskim, że kultura nie powinna być tylko jednym z punktów budżetów unijnych i debat sektorowych, ponieważ kultura jest nadrzędnym czynnikiem integracji. To, że Europa może mówić o wspólnej tożsamości, jest efektem działania kultury. ASFE lobbuje, ale nie za zwiększeniem środków na kulturę tylko za tym, żeby świadomość nadrzędnej roli kultury była odczuwalna we wszystkich dyrektywach unijnych i we wszystkich debatach europejskich. ASFE ma już bardzo konkretne osiągnięcia, zwłaszcza w krajach Europy środkowo-wschodniej. W Polsce do tej pory nie mają partnera. To jedna z ciekawszych inicjatyw europejskich, dlatego naprawdę warto uczestniczyć w debatach ASFE podczas kongresu.

MW: W trakcie tych debat przy jednym stole zasiadają politycy, przedstawiciele lokalnych władz i organizacje pozarządowe. W ten sposób ASFE manifestuje, że ngosy mogą być i są aktywnymi uczestnikami zmian w kulturze na poziomie europejskim. Debatowanie o sprawach pozornie nieosiągalnych często pozwala zweryfikować tę nieosiągalność.

Jakie są waszym zdanie najsłabsze strony polskiego trzeciego sektora?

KW: Najsłabszą stroną sektora jest rozproszenie i wzajemna konkurencja zamiast współpracy – nad tym problemem chcemy pracować podczas kongresu.

MW: Ja widzę jeszcze dwa problemy. Po pierwsze, organizacje nie potrafią myśleć perspektywicznie i budować strategii na przyszłość: żyją od projektu do projektu, nie zwracając uwagi na kontekst, w którym działają. Po drugie punktem wyjścia w wielu rozmowach i działaniach są pieniądze. Pieniądze są bardzo ważne, dają możliwość realizacji zamierzonych działań, ale od nich nie można zaczynać, bo są tylko narzędziem. Jeżeli na pierwszym miejscu postawimy sobie inne, długofalowe cele, to zbudujemy stabilność naszej organizacji, będzie ona mogła przetrwać, pomimo chwilowych problemów finansowych. Stawiajmy na zrównoważony rozwój, budowanie strategii i współpracę – jestem przekonana, że wtedy stworzymy naprawdę silny trzeci sektor.

Czy zakładacie, że kongres może w jakiś sposób wyedukować polskie organizacje pozarządowe?

MW: Próbujemy przygotowywać organizacje pozarządowe do kongresu, organizując cykl warsztatów, podczas których rozmawiamy o tym, jak budować sieci, jak współpracować z biznesem, jak tworzyć strategie. Być może uda nam się wydać mały przewodnik dla ngosów z naszymi rekomendacjami w kwestii rozwiązywania tych problemów. Natomiast na samym kongresie nie chcemy już nikogo edukować. Chcemy traktować organizacje pozarządowe jako partnerów dojrzałych do poważnej rozmowy.

KW: Kongres ma pokazać wachlarz możliwości. Uczestnicy będą mogli poznać potencjalnych partnerów z Polski i zza granicy, z organizacji pozarządowych i z instytucji. Kongres ma zainicjować tworzenie sieci współpracy pomiędzy sektorami kultury: instytucjonalnym i nieinstytucjonalnym, a także innymi sektorami; ma być źródłem inspiracji – to co zrobią z tym później organizacje pozarządowe jest już w ich rękach. Mamy nadzieję, że skorzystają z tych możliwości.

Rozmawiała Agata Diduszko-Zyglewska

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