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Aktorzy zmian społecznych - Rozmowa z Tsvetą Andreevą i Oleksandrem Butsenko

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O potencjalne polsko-ukraińskiego sieciowania organizacji i znaczeniu kultury w życiu lokalnych społeczności – mówią Tsveta Andreeva z European Cultural Foundation i Oleksandr Butsenko, dyrektor kijowskiego Centrum Rozwoju – Demokracja poprzez Kulturę.

Od czego powinna zacząć organizacja pozarządowa, która chce nawiązać współpracę z partnerami z Ukrainy?

Oleksandr Butsenko: Przede wszystkim, trzeba mieć pomysł, na to, co chce się zrobić. Dobrze jest znać lokalnych aktywistów, którzy pomogą w znalezieniu organizacji odpowiedniej do realizacji tego pomysłu. Potencjalnych parterów można również szukać w różnych bazach organizacji. Co jeszcze? Oczywiście niezbędne są chęci, entuzjazm i szczęście.

Tego naszym NGOsom nie brakuje! Na czym więc polega problem? Dlaczego tak mało jest transgranicznych projektów?

OB: Głównym problemem jest brak informacji. Mam tu na myśli tak podstawowe narzędzia, jak strony internetowe z informacjami o organizacjach trzeciego sektora i na Ukrainie i w Polsce oraz prezentacją ich działalności. To podstawa sieciowania. Przy dobrej woli z obu stron, takie narzędzie usprawniłoby tę współpracę. Tymczasem, nie znamy ludzi, ich idei, planów, a nawet języka i kultury. To jest problem powszechny i wszechobecny – na poziomie lokalnym, narodowym i międzynarodowym. Na Ukrainie, nawet w dużych miastach, takich jak Kijów, nie wiadomo jakie projekty są aktualnie realizowane i przez które organizacje.

Skąd więc czerpać informacje o tej drugiej stronie? Może trzeba spędzić wakacje na Ukrainie?

Tsveta Andreeva: Jeśli poważnie myśli się o współpracy z partnerami międzynarodowymi, trzeba podjąć poważne kroki. Nie wystarczy jedna wycieczka, wizyta, czy jeden pomysł. Potrzebne jest planowanie długoterminowe. Nie ma problemu ze znalezieniem partnera z Ukrainy do jednorazowego projektu, na rok czy dwa. Problem polega na tym, że kraje Partnerstwa Wschodniego potrzebują długoterminowego zaangażowania organizacji z Unii Europejskiej. Znam wiele przykładów rozczarowania ukraińskich aktywistów współpracą z organizacjami z Unii, które realizują projekt i znikają. Ludzie tracą wtedy zaufanie, nie chcą ponownie angażować się w takie partnerstwo. Właśnie dlatego zalecamy, aby współpracę z lokalnym partnerem zacząć od projektu pilotażowego, albo przyłączyć się do sieci. Grupowe partnerstwo zwiększa szansę osiągnięcia lepszych efektów.

Ale małe organizacje pozarządowe rzadko planują „długoterminowe inwestycje”. To raczej domena polityki rządowej.

OB: Mamy bilateralną umowę zawartą przez rządy Polski i Ukrainy, ale teraz trzeba wypełnić ją treścią, a to jest rola niezależnych organizacji. Oczywiście konieczne są zmiany na wyższym szczeblu – w systemie wizowym, w sposobach finansowania, ale reszta zależy od inicjatywy oddolnej.

TA: Inicjatywna jest zawsze oddolna – pochodzi od społeczeństwa obywatelskiego i nie jest kwestią rządowych programów. Jeśli taki istnieje – może być pomocny. Zresztą programy rządowe zwykle działają całkiem nieźle, jeśli tylko zainteresowani wiedzą o ich istnieniu. I tu znów wracamy do problemu braku informacji...

Polskie organizacje wciąż bardziej zapatrzone są w Zachód, ponieważ istnieje przeświadczenie, że od zachodnich partnerów można się więcej nauczyć. Jakie korzyści płyną ze współpracy z partnerami ze Wschodu?

TA: Współpraca w krajach zachodnich jest łatwiejsza. System grantowy, wsparcie lokalnych władz, prywatni sponsorzy – to wszystko funkcjonuje lepiej na Zachodzie. Ale myślę, że więcej korzyści i ciekawsze doświadczenia można zdobyć na Wschodzie.

A jak w tym kontekście Polska mogłaby spożytkować swoją rolę łącznika między Wschodem i Zachodem?

OB: Mając dostęp do wiedzy i doświadczeń partnerów zachodnich, a także funduszy unijnych, Polska mogłaby wykorzystać ogromny potencjał wschodniej kreatywności. Nowe idea idą z Zachodu, ale Ukraińcy lepiej je przyswoją od Polaków niż np. Anglików. Ukraińcy czują się w Polsce jak w domu, bardzo komfortowo.

TA: Polska jest bardzo dobrym przekaźnikiem kultury pomiędzy Wschodem i Zachodem. I o ile władze widzą w tym szansę, o tyle organizacje pozarządowe nie są aż tak bardzo zaangażowane w tę współpracę. A według mnie, tu jest potrzebna inicjatywa oddolna, która na razie jest bardzo sporadyczna.

Może brakuje jednego wyraźnego, wspólnego celu – jak Euro 2012 dla działaczy sportowych z Polski i Ukrainy – który zmobilizowałby organizacje kulturalne na każdym szczeblu?

TA: Idealistycznie patrząc – tak. Jednak sektor kultury trudno skonsolidować. To wszędzie jest wielkim problemem – skłonić ludzi aby przemówili niezależnym, ale jednym głosem. Najtrudniejsze jest właśnie sformułowanie tego jednego żądania, wspólnego celu. Dlatego, jednym z tematów naszego warsztatu jest orędownictwo (advocacy). Chcemy uzmysłowić uczestnikom, że projekty kulturalne nie powinny funkcjonować w oderwaniu od polityki skoncentrowane wyłącznie na rezultacie i procesie artystycznym, ale powinny mieć swoje miejsce w otaczającym je świecie. Uwzględniać sytuację polityczną i ekonomiczną, jak również to, że projekt kulturalny możne wpływać na tę sytuację. Chcemy aby działacze sektora kultury stali się prawdziwymi „aktorami zmian społecznych” w swoich lokalnych wspólnotach.

Czym jest rozwój lokalnej wspólnoty oparty na kulturze? Czy to działa?

OB: Działa szczególnie w obecnych czasach kryzysu, ponieważ kultura to potencjał każdej lokalnej wspólnoty. Wiąże się z możliwością rozwoju jej kreatywności, wizji, wykorzystania historycznego kontekstu. Kultura jest miarą jakości życia, jednym z filarów zrównoważonego rozwoju, szczególnie na poziomie lokalnym. Mówiąc o aktywności lokalnej wspólnoty, o jej przyszłości, w pierwszej kolejności powinniśmy mówić o jej historii, dziedzictwie, działaczach kulturalnych, a w dopiero drugiej – o ekonomii. Kultura jest narzędziem, dzięki któremu życie staje się lepsze. Nie zaczyna i nie kończy się na prezentacjach artystycznych, ale stanowi część życia.

W czasach kryzysu, budżet na kulturę jest przycinany jako pierwszy.

OB: Niektórzy ludzie myślą, że kultura nie przynosi korzyści ekonomicznych, ale się mylą. Kultura jest ważna z punktu widzenia ekonomii – przyciąga turystów, inwestorów, mieszkańców.

Organizacje pozarządowe często postrzegane są bardziej jako kółka zainteresowań czy hobby, a nie kuźnie aktorów zmian. Czy NGO‑osy potrzebują profesjonalizacji?

TA: Każda organizacja pozarządowa wypełnia luką w społeczeństwie. Trzeci sektor pojawia się wszędzie tam, gdzie nie docierają sektory publiczny i prywatny. I nie ma znaczenia, czy jest to mała, amatorska organizacja, czy profesjonalna. Powstała dlatego, że była taka potrzeba. Jeśli „profesjonalizację” rozumiemy jako zdolność organizacji do zarządzania projektem, do pomnażania zrównoważonych efektów swojej pracy i jej wpływu – to zdecydowanie potrzebna jest każdej organizacji. Tylko kto się tym zajmie? Niektóre organizacje nie zdają sobie sprawy, że brakuje im umiejętności. Potrzebują impulsu, aby to zrozumieć.

Jest wiele osób, które chcą działać, ale nie chcą tonąć w papierach, tkwić nad wnioskami o granty, w biurokratycznym świecie.

OB: Planowanie i wytyczanie celów jest nieodłącznym elementem każdego projektu. Tak jak raport końcowy – to nic biurokratycznego. Trzeci sektor to sektor kreatywny, ale może być też sektorem iluzji, ponieważ każda organizacja uważa, że jej „know-how” jest najlepszy. Tymczasem powinna być otwarta na rozwój. Z drugiej strony, władze państwowe i lokalne powinny rozumieć, że organizacje pozarządowe są wprawdzie przedsiębiorstwami społeczeństwa obywatelskiego, ale składają się z realnych ludzi, osobowości. Jak powiedziała premier Irlandii: „nie żyjemy w ekonomii, tylko w społeczeństwie” – więc struktury powinny być elastyczne.

Rozmawiała Anna Malinowska

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